High5advertising was nice enough to ‘borrow’ the design look and feel of the well known Stopdesign his response to our inquiries of their inspiration? And I quote, unedited and [sic] for your enjoyment:
This message goes out to stopdesign’s creator and stopdesign’s viewers.
High5advertising is a business and we have several websites and webdesigners working for us. The person that made High5advertising.com is no longer with us. I do not know if he copied stopdesign.com or not. Our current webdesigner has been planning a new design of high5advertising.com for several weeks. I am not exactly sure when the new design will be ready but it will look a lot better then what we currently have. From my own personal business opinion there are tones of websites on the internet that have the same layouts. What makes a really good website is the color schemes, graphics and fonts. I compared the two websits and have found that there are no identical graphics, color schemes or fonts. I also have checked with my current webdesigner and was informed that we have all original copies of graphics and code that was used to design the website. I hope this puts everyone at ease.
Vadim Lisserman
Interesting, and my response:
Then you’re an idiot AND a liar. There’s nothing professional or dignified in ripping off a design — and your blatant response in the industry only puts me ten seconds more from going out of my way to make it a point of warning potential customers. I used to have an office right over by the Tribune building (when the design firm Taylor and Taylor cornered the advertising area there in the dotcom boom), I’ll be sure to make mention of your design tactics to clients as I fly back for business.
So http://high5advertising.com/ and http://stopdesign.com/portfolio/, and I see:
1) horizontal single backdrop repeat pattern coupled with
2) 3/4 pixel top bar before first level navigation
3) first level navigation almost the exact same dark inner shadow before solid color coupled with
4) Is that a standard issue photographic backdrop with blown out gaussian blur for halo effect on a header element with
5) even the right side of the second tier navigation having angled pinstripes over the photoshopped backdrop with a
6) 1 column – 2 column structure in an almost exact pixel width for a containing element
7) followed up with that same dark inner shadow before solid color
Look, we’re all privey to the idea in this industry that we borrow ideas and learn from those before us — when Pablo Picasso was roughly quoted ‘Bad artists copy, good artists steal’, it wasn’t a literal translation he was shooting for — bad artists, in your case, copy the look and feel of a design and change subtle elements to play it off as a mistake. Good artists take the theme of an idea, develop it, nurture it, and recreate it into something that leaped from the original design into something barely noticeable where the original could simply be called ‘inspiration’.
You stole the design, it’s a subtle change, but a blatant rip-off. Had you known Stop Design was considered a leader in this industry, you would have maybe thought about the fact that it is not so easy to play it off — this sites been around for quite sometime. Fonts cannot be copyrighted by designers, nor color schemes and patterns, but as the code for a list apart used to note in the css ‘the design, the look and feel, is copyrighted’.
In the end, it doesn’t matter if you have the original files or not — I’ve interviewed designers who have had original files of their portfolio, when you can tell it was a blatant disrespect for the original artists creation and a complete ripoff. Having parchement paper and a pencil sketch of the design you just traced over a mickey mouse cell, but you changed the color to pink and gave him bunny ears, doesn’t make it anymore original than if you just left it a ripoff; and sure doesn’t make you talented. I learned that going to design school at Columbia, as you know, in my hometown of Chicago.
You’ll have to excuse me as I find this amusing — I still consider myself a print designer and marketer, not so much a web designer. If you were to pull this in the print industry, clients would avoid you like the plague. It’s only a matter of time it happens in the web industry as word spreads.
I guess the only difference I see is you coded your site like trash http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fhigh5advertising.com%2F – so we’ll pin that on ignorance, but the look and feel, the ‘design’ of the site, is a rip off – as your ‘original copies of the graphics’ will show. I look forward to comparing the new site to other well known design firms for my own personal amusement.
Now Mike Rundle had already weighed in on the curiosities of this situation, as he puts so well in our emails, when Vadim notes:
I’m going to put this as simple as I can. I did not not make this website. I am not a webdesigner. I do networking and business management. I hire people to work for me. Some people work out some don’t. They make websites for us and I post them. I don’t know whats a copy or not. I cannot apologize for something I didn’t do. Its going to be changed.
Maybe it’s too late in the evening for me, but I’m happy to follow up:
You’re the captain of this ship — your employee screws up, it’s your *%. Fix it.
Next time your small brain thinks of passing off a belated sales pitch in the hopes of rendering all thoughts null and mute, maybe you should remind yourself again ‘I don’t know whats a copy or not.’ If you don’t know what’s a copy or not, then you should have never even posted a response like:
“I compared the two websits and have found that there are no identical graphics, color schemes or fonts.”
You cannot apologize for what your employee does — but since I’m guessing he was a freelancer, that binds your company legally to your mistake. Apologize for your company, as any experienced business manager would do, had he a pair. This maybe your first lesson in mopping up a PR mess, it goes like this:
“I was unaware of the mistakes one of my employees made, but as owner of this business I apologize and take full responsibility. Never was it the intent of a respectable company like ylunch and high5advertising to blatantly copy a talented and experienced company such as stopdesign. It will be fixed as soon as possible, please except our apology.”
That’s called having balls, and being a leader – don’t crawl away from the ‘i didn’t know so i can’t apologize for something I have no control over…’ angle; it’s never succeeded from Nero to Nixon. Show me leadership Vadim, I’ll be up for another half hour.
Then it follows up with Greg inquiring about our credentials — and not just to me, he CC’s everyone on the list, sending a personal note to each of them with their respective name, and CC’ing them too:
Brady,
My name is Greg I am the CEO of the company. Your input is greatly appreciated.
I was wondering if you can show me some of the websites you created. Then if they are good we can listen and implement your feedback.
I look forward to seeing links from you.
Have a great day
GregFeel free to call me to discuss further ideas.
847.721.7555 Direct Cell Phone number
Then Greg wants to throw down:
Brady…please call me: 847.721.7555
I would like to discuss some of your RUDE coments..
Thank you
GS
I did not offend anyone…I was NOT the designer of the site…
All you do is offend me and my webmaster….GROW up
Call me and we can discuss the appropriate actions to be taken
847.721.7555
And the next creation will be AWESOME, not some lame ripoff:
NEW DESIGHN WILL BE UNVALIED EBY ARTEMIS THE GREAT SOON…..THEN YOU WILL ALL SEE HIS POWER…AND BE IN AWW…HIS WORDS “THERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT STOP DESIGN I LIKED HIS SITE AND WAS MERELY GIVING HIM PUBLICITY”
A NEW SITE WILL BE UP SOON ONE THE IS A LITTLE BIT MORE ADVANCED THEN JUST PURE PLAIN CSS THAT IS GETING OVERDONE AND OVER COPIED….
STAY TUNED NEW SITE WILL BE UNVEILED WITHIN 6 MONTHS
But wait, all your questions are answered — Artemis speaks, and even admits to using StopDesign as a reference for the site… borrowing from my inspiration notation, and pointing out that I am an untalented designer:
Hello Brady
This is Artemis the designer for what you refer to as “on faking talent”.
Lets us be clear about this. None of the graphics, code nor the files have been copied stolen nor plagurized. We will take down the site and redisign it from scratch because I get annoyed by petty people that have nothing better to do with their time than moan and nitpick at other people work.
If someone would have made a search engine that is almost identical to Google, noone would have complain.
We told you three times we are taking it down when the site will be redesigned. Do you want me to repeat it again?
What I did was not copying the site, but I got inspiration from looking at it yes. I also got inspired by many other designers in the field. Stop Design thinks just a little bit highly of yourself. Stop Design did not invent the wheel nor did you invent the interrnet (i.e CSS based design with a plain look and feel). All my site is a bunch of text and images that I created. Prove me wrong!
I am sorry you feel like I copied over your friends site. In my view I combined the best elements of many designs and gave it my own touch. If the measurements of the links and borders closely resemble your site, it is because I have a good eye for design. I have all the original files if you would like copies of them. My eyes ability and its skill ( a coincidance if I may say ) I have the ability to create stunning work. I am sorry you do not have the same ability, as your friend at Stop Design. He is a good designer, but I do have to say that looking at his CSS sites, they all seem copies of one another. I have also seen many sites that are copies of sites within Stop Design portfolio, yet my time is valuable. I will not spend time nitpicking at them. I have better things to do. Lay this matter to rest . I am working on a redesign. Also tell your friend at Stop Design, “Thanks for the free publicity”.
And also, you Brady seem like a rude person. No client will ever work with a childish namecaller. I have many clients in Chicagoland area and close friends within Columbia College in Chicago. I know you moved away to California, and are hiding behind your computer screen. Get some balls. I don’t want to mention your name to some of the teachers and clients that I am in close contact with. Yes I went to Columbia as well. I know you would not want to become famous for some of these insults you are spirting out in your emails. Do not ever threaten me ever again or harass me or my company via email I have a team of lawyers that will eat you up.
Artemis Lisserman
Creative Director and Chief Design & Development Officer
Not knowing when to quit, I follow up:
Actually, none of the emails I posted noted any threats what so ever to your person, or your company — I clearly noted that you have violated the copyright of a designer, as you even denoted in the email you just sent me below and I have forwarded along to all in this list – inspire (as I noted in my first email you are referencing?) is different than what you did. I would also argue my responses have been well written compared to much of the poor written responses I’m getting from each and every employee of yLunch. Much less threatening me with lawsuit is inappropriate, and unfounded — call your lawyer for legal council if you must. But this email has been sent with no intention of threatening and harming your person, company, or business — but it is a point to note your blatant disregard of a created and credited design.
I’m going to rest easy with the notion that you consider your talents far superior than mine — and that your portfolio on high5advertising is beautiful. I am happy that you will be taking the site down as you noted for the 4th time, yet I have not seen an apology for your need to copy another persons site — even as you defend it, the look and feel is what is copyright in a design, and you have clearly mimicked it.
Thank you for the informative email Artemis, I look forward to future communication.
P.S. — did you just call me a ‘namecaller’… and then just call me names?
Ahh, then I get more emails telling them to call me or asking for my number — which I note has been on the footer of all my email correspondences up to that point. I remind him that because of newly raised legal concerns, I’ll be recording with my VoIP of choice for documentation purposes of course.
This pretty much leaves me out of the conversation for the rest of the time, leaving Mike Rundle and Benson Low to fair for themselves.
That intriguing 1 day conversation of mass email, questionably juvenile, ends with this:
High5advertising admitting they copied the site, or used it, as a plagiarist justifies, for ‘inspiration’ — while we can argue that any publicity is good publicity — how is the professionalism above reflective of your business practices and self worth?
This industry is still a professional one; wether your a home grown artist with your CS suite or an experienced and trained one — learning from us all is the right of passage in our craft. But it’s one thing to take to learn and grow, and another to take for simply your financial benefit. If you cannot design, hire a designer. If you want to learn from those before you, that is fine — give credit where credit is due, and improve as you go.
Designers who rip off other designers work ultimately hurt other designers and lower the quality their customers pay for. Now have fun, and let the world know about it.
Edit: They’ve taken to a horribly poor flash rendition, which is not a ripoff, but no where near the amazing talent that they boasted. I’ve uploaded the originals for record:
